23 replies to this topic

[Big Tin Man]

Problem:
Hiding and smoke diving at the end of a scouting match is BS gameplay

Solution:
Eliminate the magic dropship beaming your mech up at 0:00 even though there are 4 defenders in the box shooting the gather mech

Method to accomplish this using existing in game mechanics:
When the dropship arrives, a new, larger box appears on map or domination circle appears on the mini-map centered on the dropship. Both sides EDIT per suggestion below: Only the gatherers can see this boundary on the minimap. The mechs gathering must be within this larger boundary to upload intel from the beacons. Upload mechanic is the same as the download mechanic: it takes 3-5 seconds to upload one data, it is interrupted by taking fire or ECM jammer, only one upload at a time (mechs don't stack, just like beacon downloads). If a single data point is uploaded, it is a victory for the gather side. Points for the gather side are determined by the number of uploaded data before timer reaches 0:00, regardless if you kill all the defending mechs or not (this gives incentive for a crippled defending mech to try and stall the data upload and not hide).

Edited by Big Tin Man, 06 December 2018 - 10:22 PM.

[Wolfy36]

I definitely agree that something should be done with scouting. The game mode is a ton of fun, but it sucks to sit looking for a 150kph light mech (or 4 in several cases) that hides for 9 minutes shut down in some hidden place and then just zooms into the zone at the last second and bam, instant victory.

It makes the match boring, frustrating, and does not generate a positive game experience. I get that someone could argue "Well, it's scouting, it doesn't exactly mean combat and it's a valid tactic." ... Sure, taking 4 locust or 4 piranha and avoiding the enemy team the entire match trying to get cap points and win IS a strat, but it makes the game mode stale and is honestly a big reason people don't like it.

[Blockwart]

Big Tin Man, on 05 December 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

So Pgi Is Going To Listen To The Community On How To Make Stuff Better?

That will never happen.

[Johnathan Tanner]

OK, SO PGI IS GOING TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY

[Big Tin Man]

Listening <> Doing

I am aware of this. But if nobody says a thing, there is nothing for them to even listen to. I was in the room when PGI's non-presentation went down. The disappointment was palpable. Frankly after that went down I was so disappointed I didn't even want to talk to Russ or Paul about the game even though I had plenty of chances.

If they truly mean that they want to make stuff better with our input, I just handed them a softball. If they weren't being genuine, well, I don't think the game will live to see mechcon 2019. I'm just trying to hold up our side of their offer.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 05 December 2018 - 02:42 PM.

[Appogee]

I am left to wonder when folks will finally stop falling for the same 'pea and thimble' trick.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Big Tin Man, on 05 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

But if nobody says a thing, there is nothing for them to even listen to.

Well, how can we say a thing when we all sing the blues. Sing along:

[SilentScreamer]

Big Tin Man, on 05 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Listening <> Doing

But if nobody says a thing, there is nothing for them to even listen to.

Appogee, on 05 December 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

I am left to wonder when folks will finally stop falling for the same 'pea and thimble' trick.

Both valid points. However, the forums are a continous source of ideas. There have been numerous community efforts as well as PGI-hand-picked roundtables. I don't think I am alone in thought at saying, I do not expect much from Russ or PGI on faction play anymore...it is beyond them.

Big Tin Man, on 05 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

I was in the room when PGI's non-presentation went down. The disappointment was palpable. Frankly after that went down I was so disappointed I didn't even want to talk to Russ or Paul about the game even though I had plenty of chances.

If they truly mean that they want to make stuff better with our input, I just handed them a softball. If they weren't being genuine, well, I don't think the game will live to see mechcon 2019

Pesemists are rarely disapointed. But PGI can probably milk mechpacks to stay afloat a long time. And there is likely no other company willing to buy the IP rights from Microsoft even if PGI goes under.

[Big Tin Man]

Appogee, on 05 December 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

I am left to wonder when folks will finally stop falling for the same 'pea and thimble' trick.

My words are cheap and my wallet is closed for now. I went to mechcon to meet up with friends. My hope was that pgi would step up because I made a lot of gaming friends in this game, and they're leaving. They would come back if FP improves. This is why I'm here, to try and save a game mode we rallied around. I know the odds of success are bad, but I would be remiss not to try.

[Black Ivan]

Won't happen. After Mech Con MWO seems to be done for

[Davegt27]

don't complain you will only make things worse

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

I do not see the problem with smoke jumping and your plan basically turns Scouting in 4v4 Skirmish which was what PGI was trying to avoid as requested by the fans.

The whole point of the mission is for one side to cap as many beacons as they can while the other side hunts them down. If the hunters cannot find their prey before their DropShip comes then the hunters failed their mission. Just like if the gatherers are all destroyed they get 0 Intel and fail their mission.

Instead of thinking of the DropShip as magically beaming up the 'Mech (which is silly, I will admit) think of it in terms of game limitations. In a "real" scouting mission the gatherers would grab the intel and leave the map and hostiles behind, but since PGI cannot or will not figure out how to have units leave the map without being destroyed then they have to do it with DropShip and smoke and squares.

Personally, I like a mission where focusing on the objective instead of just brawling it out like every other mission is a valid strategy. It means you have to think and react to what you opponents are doing. Take Active Probes. Do you spread out and find the enemy or search all together? There are also strategies the hunters can use to lure out the gatherers. I just wish PGI gave higher rewards for each beacon captured.

Edited by R79TCom1 Night Lanner, 06 December 2018 - 08:33 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

^^^ So if, in my idea, we removed the dropship location from the defenders minimap, would that suffice? The defenders would need to hunt and find them, and there is still a large incentive to find and destroy the gatherers. A victory for the gather side could involve 1 mech hiding within the circle doing the data upload (read: escaping) while the other mechs drew fire. This also allows for a partial victory if you gathered 10 points, but only got 5 uploaded, the gather side still gets 5 points.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

I like that idea better than the suggestion before and would be interested in play testing something like that.

[Big Tin Man]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 06 December 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

I like that idea better than the suggestion before and would be interested in play testing something like that.

OP edited to reflect this.

[General Solo]

Big Tin Man, on 05 December 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

Problem:
Hiding and smoke diving at the end of a scouting match is BS gameplay

Solution:
Eliminate the magic dropship beaming your mech up at 0:00 even though there are 4 defenders in the box shooting the gather mech

Method to accomplish this using existing in game mechanics:
When the dropship arrives, a new, larger box appears on map or domination circle appears on the mini-map centered on the dropship. Both sides EDIT per suggestion below: Only the gatherers can see this boundary on the minimap. The mechs gathering must be within this larger boundary to upload intel from the beacons. Upload mechanic is the same as the download mechanic: it takes 3-5 seconds to upload one data, it is interrupted by taking fire or ECM jammer, only one upload at a time (mechs don't stack, just like beacon downloads). If a single data point is uploaded, it is a victory for the gather side. Points for the gather side are determined by the number of uploaded data before timer reaches 0:00, regardless if you kill all the defending mechs or not (this gives incentive for a crippled defending mech to try and stall the data upload and not hide).

Those are valid things played within the rules
Winning is the objective not appeasing some folks who don't thinks its possible for them to be beatten




Aka MM: Its nothing a functioning division of skill pools would not fix, permanently without the constant changes that dont actually fix the skill gap paradox.

aka: No skill gap separation bleeds players until the population gets so small, that skill gap separation is very hard to implement coz not enough players to keep the thin end at the tip of the bell curve from waiting long time for matches.

In this case I suggest round robin the pointy end against the rest to spread the pain

May not be much of a challange for the pointy end, but their good at organizing them selves, player comp stuff.

Though when the bell curve gets fatter due to increased population, due to skill gap separation the pointy end gets fatter too. (Some elite ish FW players/groups forget this)

Short term pain (as long as it doesnt kill you/ the game) long term gain.
NO UR NOT T1 BUT UR GAMES WILL LAST LONGER THAN 3 MINUTES.
IMO: Genuine match length is a good indicator of rough match quality even if score is 12 - 2.
(Not running the clock artificial match length)

aka: A 3 minute 12-2 game is mostly a stomp but a 12 minute 12-2 game was often a good game where the snowball man did his thing.

Their some older games aka league of legends/CSGO (I think) that do this well
And are still very popular due to their developers attenion to the skill gap thing and a drive to include all skill ranges into their game.

They say: WELCOME EVERY ONE AND WE HAVE A PLACE FOR YOUSE SKILL LEVEL.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 06 December 2018 - 11:28 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

Oz, what was your point? That people play the objective currently? A new MM will solve everything when there are only 8 people playing?

I never disputed that is a valid tactic, I just think it is boring gameplay (hiding for 5-10 minutes) and unrealistic that a dropship is going to pluck a 55 ton mech out of a hot LZ.

I've been on both sides of it as well, and when I was the smoke diver it felt like total cheese. This gameplay can and should be better.

[MischiefSC]

I've got this tingly feeling. It's like the fearful anticipation before game patches but not fearful.

Is this....

Hope?

[Nightbird]

MischiefSC, on 07 December 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

I've got this tingly feeling. It's like the fearful anticipation before game patches but not fearful.

Is this....

Hope?

Me too, I'm really looking forward to that FL refresh button!

[Daurock]

Is it really that hard to make the the dropship something destructible, (But not so easy as 1 or two volleys can kill it) for the defending side? If you Couple that with Attacking side players simply having to stay inside the drop square for 15 or so seconds, and you have a situation where the end condition becomes a fast and furious race to the finish. (Get there, get in to load up, or get there shoot it down before they can do so.) It forces a quick and dirty conflict at the end, but not one that is purely dependent on mech vs. mech combat.